foreign minister BERNARD KOUCHNER remarks on iran in INTERVIEW with LE GRAND JURY, RTL, LE FIGARO, AND LCI
FRENCH MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
October 4, 2009
Excerpts
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THE MINISTER - (…) We're waiting for this decision and I hope it will be taken and be influenced by this wind of optimism, cautious optimism since, as you know, the E3+3 (United States, Germany, United Kingdom, France, Russia and China) had a meeting with the Iranian envoy in Geneva two days ago. This means something has happened; we hadn't had a meeting with the Iranians for 18 months.
Q. - The climate has changed, how would you describe your meeting? Was it constructive?
THE MINISTER - Yes, but we have to be very careful.
Q. - So what word would you choose?
THE MINISTER - As you know, we welcomed the US approach which changed from the previous administration's. President Obama was keen to talk to the Iranians.
This last meeting in Geneva didn't go that badly since a new meeting is scheduled for the end of October and, above all, today, we learned from Mohamed ElBaradei, Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, that on 25 October he - or at any rate, his experts - could visit the new Qom site, i.e. a new enrichment site which had been concealed for around four years.
Of course, this caused a tremendous commotion because we're accusing them of not telling the whole truth about their nuclear programme. If this activity is for peaceful purposes, we accept it, obviously, and can even encourage it. But for military purposes, that's absolutely forbidden: no atomic bombs, which would not only complicate that already inflammable region but also make it even more unstable. So there you are, the IAEA will visit the previously concealed Qom site on 25 October.
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Q. - Going into a bit more detail, we've learned today that France, Russia and the United States were going to discuss with the Iranians the issue of enriching uranium outside Iran. And we gathered - and obviously you'll clarify this - that France would be part of this process, in particular… of producing 19.5%-enriched uranium. France would manufacture the tubes allowing the uranium to be used for civilian purposes.
THE MINISTER - That's right. It's what we've offered to do, it's part of the negotiation. First of all, we've got to talk about this development of civilian nuclear energy and make sure it's solely for civilian purposes by [the Iranians] answering the IAEA's questions. The Iranians haven't answered the IAEA's questions, and yet they're very simple. Yes or no: has uranium enrichment in Iran had, or does it still have, a military purpose?
You know we're proposing a "freeze-for-freeze". I remind you that the Security Council and E3+3 have already proposed and got adopted three series of United Nations sanctions.
We're happy not to talk about sanctions any more for the moment, but we have to talk about the crux of the matter, i.e. is or isn't this uranium enrichment dangerous? If we talk about it, then yes, we'll be able to agree - and I believe we'll do this, as will the Russians - to enrich this uranium, which isn't rich enough, so as to power a research reactor which they have every right to possess.
Q. - We're going to enrich this 5%-enriched uranium to 20% and it's still for civilian use. What guarantee will we have that they won't subsequently enrich it to 90% for military purposes?
THE MINISTER - What guarantees this for us will be the opening of all these sites and credible inspections, answers given to the questions, which for the moment they don't want to answer.
The matter is in the form of a gas, it would be made into a solid fuel (…) to be used in the research reactor to make, for example, medical isotopes. That's totally natural and we'll do this if we have the guarantee that no other use could be made of it.
Q. - Do you get the sense, Bernard Kouchner, that we can move towards finding an exit strategy for the crisis on this Iranian nuclear issue?
THE MINISTER - At all events, people have been saying that for a long time. I want us to bring this crisis to an end.
Q. - Do you think a chink has opened up and that the Iranian party is better disposed than before, more honest than it has been?
THE MINISTER - I think there's movement. I think a little chink has opened up, that the protests we've talked about - the popular protest, in the streets, what is now a very determined whole opposition movement - have something to do with it. If that were the case, we'd be very happy. But I'd like to point out to you that for two and a half years France has been talking constantly to the Iranians, it's not new.
The Americans didn't want to talk even though they were present, 18 months ago, at the last E3+3 meeting in Geneva. Now they're reaching out [to the Iranians], we can't but be pleased. We ourselves have been doing it for a long time. Let's try. We'll very soon see how things pan out.
Q. - Yes but, a contrario, you've been talking to the Iranians for a very long time, your predecessors also had negotiations. There was the Troika and, in the end, when you wind the film back, what we see is that the only time they halted their programme, the race to the bomb, was in 2003 when they felt under pressure, under direct threat from the Americans. And then the negotiations, bargaining allowed them, on the contrary, to "play for time" and pursue their programme. Doesn't this call for more firmness, rapid sanctions and more direct threats?
THE MINISTER - We're very firm and we've been very determined in what we've said, particularly President Sarkozy, above all in New York, at the Security Council summit devoted to nuclear disarmament at a time when we were facing threats from Iran and North Korea. We were very firm, but, at the same time, we're remaining hopeful!
(…) We wanted to involve Europe - since it was the beginning -, just three countries from Europe. And then we brought in the Security Council Permanent Members.
There's a new element since then; there's a threat of Israeli strikes which is brought up every time. Should that increase our determination? Yes, it has to make us step up our efforts, make us more determined to reduce tensions; we're seeking peace. It's clear and simple, we don't want there to be more tension in the Middle East, since we think - and this is another element, but we'll certainly talk about it again - that absolutely everything has to be done to get peace in the Middle East. This peace will entail the creation of a Palestinian State. We're tackling the job; we are very clear on that. I think today - and we must welcome this - French diplomacy carries a lot of weight in these issues.
Q. - The Israeli threat…THE MINISTER - Yes, it's bolstering the extremists on all sides, it's too dangerous.
Q. - Do you think this Israeli threat is serious?
THE MINISTER - Yes.
Q. - Do you think that an Israeli strike can obliterate Iran's nuclear programme?
THE MINISTER - I believe that depends on what happens now that this negotiation has started. But, at all events, it must, of course, be taken very seriously.
The negotiation began on Thursday, a few days earlier missiles had been fired, including missiles with a range of over 2,000 km. So you see we've discovered the existence of both a new enrichment site and also of missiles which could perhaps be equipped with atomic weapons. We are obviously being very firm.
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Q. - President Sarkozy has said that, for him, things had to be clear in December, otherwise we'd move towards new sanctions. Does that timetable suit you Bernard Kouchner?
THE MINISTER - Yes, it suits me. President Sarkozy set it, so it suits me. What was very spectacular was that together, President Obama, President Sarkozy and Gordon Brown spoke very firmly about the Iranian issue in Pittsburgh - Mrs Merkel wasn't there because she hadn't yet arrived - whilst the G20 meeting had been devoted more to the economy and the response to the crisis. We agree. We're going to open the negotiations; they were opened on Thursday. We're going to continue them with a great deal of goodwill, but keeping our eyes wide open.
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