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JV: David Miliband is here, Foreign Secretary, discussing well Europe we talked about and, and let's talk about Iran and the Middle East. Iran first of all, the West is threatening Iran with new sanctions if it doesn't end its uranium enrichment and President Ahmadinejad doesn't seem very bothered does he?

DM: It's a very serious situation because the Middle East has got enough problems without a nuclear arms race and the Iranian uranium enrichment programme threatens a nuclear arms race, that's why we're taking it so seriously.

We're very committed to the idea that Iran can be treated as a normal country if it behaves like a normal country. At the moment it's not behaving like a normal country because it's in violation of UN Security Council resolutions and, critically, the International Atomic Energy Authority, which regulates civilian and nuclear weapons around the world, has found Iran to be in serious breach and has got serious concerns about the way the Iranian programme is going.

And so you've got this situation now where there are serious sanctions on Iran to try to bring them to sense. And, secondly, a big offer on the table, a package, that says if Iran freezes and then suspends its uranium enrichment programme there's economic, cultural and scientific benefits for the people of Iran. Because our quarrel is not with the Iranians, I mean this is an educated, civilised country that should be a force for stability in the world not a force for instability.

JV: So if all of that fails would you support pre-emptive strikes by Israel …

DM: Look we don't …

JV: … on Iran's facilities?

DM: … we don't, we don't want to get there. We've got to …

JV: Obviously not but I'm asking you if you would support it.

DM: … well it's important that I say we are a hundred per cent focused on the diplomatic track because it's a diplomatic resolution that must be found to this issue. It's massively in everybody's interest and I think it doesn't help to start speculating beyond that.

We are a hundred per cent focused on the diplomatic track and I always say to people focus on what I am saying not on what I'm not saying. And the Iranian issue is one of the top things that could bring me back from my holidays in the next few weeks and is one of the top concerns for Foreign Ministers around the world because it threatens even greater instability in such a dangerous part of the world.

JV: Let's hear from Andrew Greening who's in Dublin. You've got a question for Miliband.

Andrew Greening (AG) (Dublin): Yes good afternoon Mr Miliband.

DM: Good afternoon Mr Greening.

AG: Yes, Mr Miliband you said last autumn that the world is a pretty scary place and indeed it is when we have a country, a country like Iran whose stated aim is to wipe democratic Israel off the face of the earth.

I was reading, following your trip to Washington last May, that you had expressed concerns about Barack Obama's advocating of a more conciliatory approach to Iran. Now given your own family's traumatic experiences at the hands of another tyrannous regime, the Nazis, I was just wondering can you not help but feel an instinctive empathy towards John McCain's more Churchillian approach to Iran's Nazi like posturing? And does Obama's Chamberlain softy softly approach, Chamberlinian softly softly approach, frankly leave you with goose pimples?

DM: Well I didn't actually express quote, unquote concern about Barack Obama's policy we had a really good discussion both with the Obama team and with the McCain team. But you're right to say that the spine chilling statements of President Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran, which do threaten to wipe Israel off the map, should be a horror story for everyone.

I believe that there is a consensus actually among what, among the three European countries who are leading on this; Britain, France and Germany and the Chinese, I spoke to the Chinese Foreign Minister about this today, the Americans led by Condi Rice, the US Secretary of State, and the Russians.

And what's our position? It's to say big incentives should be offered to Iran to be a normal player in the international nuclear game but if, if they don't adhere to that then we need to take very, very severe action that hits them on the economy. And I think (indistinct) …

JV: And that's as severe as it gets is it?

DM: … come back, come back in a sec, come back in a sec, look I promise you I'll let you come back just, just let me make the point. The interesting thing is that people in Iran for the first time are now debating whether or not what they're doing is sensible and in the end the decision will not be a decision of President Ahmadinejad, the key decision maker is Supreme Leader Khamenei. His statement yesterday which averred that he would continue with the uranium enrichment programme is obviously not what we want to hear but Iran has the chance to rejoin the international community of nations. And I think that there is toughness right throughout the policy community on this.

JV: Isn't it the case though Foreign Secretary that realistically Britain can not use force because of what has happened in Iraq and the Iranians know that?

DM: I think the issue that you posed to me is what would you do, it's not about Britain using force it's about the use of force and what would our position be. And I say, very, very clearly, that a hundred per cent of our effort is focused on the diplomatic track other people can choose their own way of thinking about this but this is a very, very dangerous situation. It's one that can be resolved by diplomacy but the costs of the Iranian course need to be made very, very clear.

JV: Okay Andrew just briefly do you think he should be a little bit more tough and threatening do you?

AG: Yes I, I do I think that Mr Miliband's wrote in the Herald Tribune at the end of the June that he admits that Iran is supporting insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, military commanders have said that it's Iranian technology that's claimed the lives of UK troops, maimed, maimed UK troops. I think there's a proxy war happening at the moment.

I think there's a fine line between endlessly offering incentives to a country that wants to wipe democratic Israel off the face of the earth and being reduced to, being reduced to being handcuffed to having to, to bribe that country to (indistinct) …

DM: Okay can I just put, say this to you Andrew because you're right to say incentives alone, big carrots on their own, that's no good. If you're going to have big carrots you need to have big sticks that's the truth.

JV: Okay but we, we keep asking you to describe the stick and you're saying we have to imagine it.

DM: No I'm saying it's a, a very serious economic stick. Look the Iranian (indistinct) …

JV: An economic stick?

DM: … the average Iranian is thirty per cent worse off now then they were thirty years ago despite the fact that you've got a massively oil rich country. Inflation's running at thirty five per cent in Iran, that's the big issue that will help change minds.

JV: Big story in Israel of course is the Prime Minister Ehud Olmert saying he will stand down, where does that leave the peace process?

DM: Well it leaves us with three month before Prime Minister Olmert goes and then possibly a longer period actually because it will take time for a new coalition to form. The absence of a Palestinian state living in a secure way next to Israel is the greatest source of anger and grievance around the world and it is absolutely essential that forty years after the 1967 War there's finally progress towards a two state solution.

I think it's very significant that both the American presidential candidates should have said they want to start on day one on this, they're not going to wait until a second term to get on with engagement on the Middle East issue.

I think Prime Minister Olmert has made the journey to recognise the importance of a Palestinian state for the security of Israel and I think that we have to try to capitalise on the next three or four month that he's in office to ensure that we make progress under this current US administration, the Annapolis Process, so that the new administration can take, take it forward.

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